flamingo71 said:

Oh and on another subject; it seems that pretty soon the relationship will head towards a MFF 3some. I have heared of several situations (on other seduction forums) where, when the mention of a MFF threesome came up within a relationship, the woman would tell the man that she wouldnt want him (the man) to kiss the other girl, or that she wouldnt want the other girl to give him a BJ etc.. i mean setting up some 'boundaries' for what the guy can do in the threesome, while at the same time having a double standard about it. I havent had this happen (yet), but just as a precaution I would like to know how to behave in a situation like that? Should I just tell her straightforward that it can't work like that?

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady “Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to”. Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as “a matter of fact”. What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

I don't have any experience with 3somes, so I won't give you specific advice.

What I can tell you is that women will generally follow you wherever you are men enough to take them, and that her "boundaries" are as likely related to her trust in your emotional capacity to handle social and sexual pressure in new and dangerous situations.

This  sort of general advice applies to just about everything.  Use it as a backstop for evaluating specific advice you get from anyone else on managing 3some mechanics.

flamingo71 said:

Oh and on another subject; it seems that pretty soon the relationship will head towards a MFF 3some. I have heared of several situations (on other seduction forums) where, when the mention of a MFF threesome came up within a relationship, the woman would tell the man that she wouldnt want him (the man) to kiss the other girl, or that she wouldnt want the other girl to give him a BJ etc.. i mean setting up some 'boundaries' for what the guy can do in the threesome, while at the same time having a double standard about it. I havent had this happen (yet), but just as a precaution I would like to know how to behave in a situation like that? Should I just tell her straightforward that it can't work like that?

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady “Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to”. Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as “a matter of fact”. What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

I don't have any experience with 3somes, so I won't give you specific advice.

What I can tell you is that women will generally follow you wherever you are men enough to take them, and that her "boundaries" are as likely related to her trust in your emotional capacity to handle social and sexual pressure in new and dangerous situations.

This  sort of general advice applies to just about everything.  Use it as a backstop for evaluating specific advice you get from anyone else on managing 3some mechanics.

flamingo71 said:

Oh and on another subject; it seems that pretty soon the relationship will head towards a MFF 3some. I have heared of several situations (on other seduction forums) where, when the mention of a MFF threesome came up within a relationship, the woman would tell the man that she wouldnt want him (the man) to kiss the other girl, or that she wouldnt want the other girl to give him a BJ etc.. i mean setting up some 'boundaries' for what the guy can do in the threesome, while at the same time having a double standard about it. I havent had this happen (yet), but just as a precaution I would like to know how to behave in a situation like that? Should I just tell her straightforward that it can't work like that?

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady “Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to”. Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as “a matter of fact”. What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

I don't have any experience with 3somes, so I won't give you specific advice.

What I can tell you is that women will generally follow you wherever you are men enough to take them, and that her "boundaries" are as likely related to her trust in your emotional capacity to handle social and sexual pressure in new and dangerous situations.

This  sort of general advice applies to just about everything.  Use it as a backstop for evaluating specific advice you get from anyone else on managing 3some mechanics.

flamingo71 said:

“Other women choose other forms of attention-getting: writing, acting, etc.”

This is interesting, especially that her college major is journalism. She always talks about she wants to 'express herself' by writing some articles, or doing documentaries of sorts etc. but somehow she never gets to it. Do you think there is a way for me to encourage her in that direction without becoming her “female girlfriend” or therapist?

Am I like psychic or what?  ;)

Sure, it's easy to encourage.  Do this:

• Appreciate without criticizing.
• 
  
• Give brutally honest answers when necessary to express YOUR opinion, WITHOUT judging her in anyway.  Example: say she writes something that you don't really get.  Just say so, and say why if you can, but don't let your opinion be a reflection of your regard for her.  That is, she might be a really cool chick but a really bad writer.  You can like her for being cool without judging her for being a bad writer.

flamingo71 said:

“Other women choose other forms of attention-getting: writing, acting, etc.”

This is interesting, especially that her college major is journalism. She always talks about she wants to 'express herself' by writing some articles, or doing documentaries of sorts etc. but somehow she never gets to it. Do you think there is a way for me to encourage her in that direction without becoming her “female girlfriend” or therapist?

Am I like psychic or what?  ;)

Sure, it's easy to encourage.  Do this:

• Appreciate without criticizing.
• 
  
• Give brutally honest answers when necessary to express YOUR opinion, WITHOUT judging her in anyway.  Example: say she writes something that you don't really get.  Just say so, and say why if you can, but don't let your opinion be a reflection of your regard for her.  That is, she might be a really cool chick but a really bad writer.  You can like her for being cool without judging her for being a bad writer.

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady "Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to". Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as "a matter of fact". What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

This is interesting, especially that her college major is journalism. She always talks about she wants to 'express herself' by writing some articles, or doing documentaries of sorts etc. but somehow she never gets to it. Do you think there is a way for me to encourage her in that direction without becoming her “female girlfriend” or therapist?

In our view, an "Adventuress" and a "Freak" share a common desire or need for attention.

Freaks obtain this attention in self-destructive ways: drugs and sex.

Other women choose other forms of attention-getting: writing, acting, etc.

In her case, her cutting off overly negative people is good to keep herself positive, but not so good if she dismisses criticism that could help her.  But that's her call.   

These labels like "freak" or "ho" or good girl" are just starting points for being able to understand a woman.  No woman will fit into one of the categories exactly, and these categories only apply when a woman acting a feminine manner.   If she is at work as an engineer, that's different from when she is out of a date.  (Or should be!)

Look for and encourage her best behavior.   Make sure she understands that you respect her and  like her as a person, even after you give her a good dose of what she craves in bed.  Drawing this boundary between what's "in the bedroom" and what isn't will help your relationship a lot.

Also make sure that sex isn't the basis for continuing and growing the relationship (unless that is truly all you care about).   The sex part is figured out, the other parts are as important in the long term: How does she fit into your life?  Does she have a role in your future?  If so, what is her role?  These are the questions you need to ask yourself, then leading the relationships will be easier.

----

We're having some issues with the forum software, bear with us while we figure it out!

When you say Adventurous, do you mean what is often in the community referred to as "Freak"? I have noticed about her that whenever something that she is doing / a person that she interacts with starts negatively affecting her or her surrounding, she will IMMIDIATELY stop doing that thing / cut contact with that person. I always thought "freaks" were by definition self-destructive? Unless you meant something else when you said "Adventurous", then nevermind

Have a great new year!

When you say Adventurous, do you mean what is often in the community referred to as "Freak"? I have noticed about her that whenever something that she is doing / a person that she interacts with starts negatively affecting her or her surrounding, she will IMMIDIATELY stop doing that thing / cut contact with that person. I always thought "freaks" were by definition self-destructive? Unless you meant something else when you said "Adventurous", then nevermind

Have a great new year!

Q: How did I know?

A: From your description of her she seems, as you say, HD, HSE, and adventurous.  Not TOO concerned with what other people think of her, but she still wants to feel good about herself.

Now, from reading your post, it seemed to me like you were being a dickhead.

Ergo: stop being a dickhead.

------

When she gets money from other guys, make it a HARD RULE that she splits the take with you.  She gets $50?  She brings you $25, or buys you stuff later, or whatever.  This is *critical*.   This puts you in the position of respect with her.  So, you passed the first half of this "test," having her bring you your share is the other half.    Don't be a dickhead about it, make it a fun game.  

-----

Women are like genetically hard-wired to go for exclusivity even when they even want it.  So don't worry too much about what says, calibrate to her behavior on this point.

About her only wanting to be with you, that's good, and it will last as long as it lasts, and not a second longer.  Again, not something to worry overmuch about.  Enjoy her for the unique person that she!   Personally, I think you can go to the next level and build an extraordinary and lifelong friendship with her.   You may not be "in a relationship" at some point in the future, but you should be able to build an incredible friendship that will survive if you both decide to move on.

-----

You will stop noticing tests for two reasons:

1. You start passing them automatically just by being yourself.

2. They more or less stop because of who you are as a man.

From here on out, I you should be able use "tests" as an invitation for play.

After reading your post, she came over to my place “to get something”. She was planning to leave right after that (her sister was waiting for her downstairs). I told her more or less what you suggested, and here is what happened:

1. She sat down next to me, eyes watery, and said: “you know I love you very much right?”

2. She called her sister downstairs and told her to go home without her, and spent the night (we had one of our wildest fucks so far). She just left to work after making me breakfast and 'casually' mentioning “oh good thing I remember, I will buy those socks today!”. Last night she also attempted a couple times to qualify the reasons for some of her non-compliant SMSes that she has been sending lately (I just smiled at each explanation and gave her a kiss, not saying a word)

We'll see how things go from here, but it seems to be on a very good track. David, I would like to ask you: how did your deduction process work in this case? How did you know that what she needed was comfort? From the way I saw it, it was a full head-on “war” where the only thing that was going to work was power, yet it seems I was entirely wrong. I would really love to hear what in my first post made you think that she needed comfort, perhaps it will help me a lot in the future!

Ah, one more thing I wanted to mention. For the last couple months, her “jealousy tests” were increasing (now I know it is probably because of reading my seduction posts on the internet). It's not a problem whatsoever, because I honestly don't feel any jealousy anymore, and I also usually don't see this as a “jealousy test”, but more like authentic conversation (she seems very immeresed in what she is telling me, unlike other jealousy tests I get from other women - where you can sense they are waiting for some reaction from you by the look in their eyes).

Example from around a week ago:

We are going back by bus from ice skiing park (P.s. sorry for my english, it's by no means my native language - I'm eastern Europe). There were 5 dudes standing around 10 feet to the left of us (18-19 years old all of them). At some point suddenly the LTR grabs my arm like she wants to silentny draw my attention, and then says to me -in a whisper, and with such a voice and face like if she was just about to tell me that she just saw a guy jerking off in public- “that guy in that group just winked at me and stuck out his toungue and started moving it around while looking at me!”

I really didn't feel it's a jealousy plot or anything like that (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, I tend not to care anymore). I just looked curiously in the direction of those guys - they were all looking at my LTR, but turned their gazes to me when they noticed that I turned my head to them. I gave them a big sincere smile, waved my hand slightly at them and said “hey guys!”. At which point they all muttered under their noses in a shy way some “hello's” and “hi's” and “good evening's”, and for a couple seconds they all dropped their heads down and started looking at their own feet. I just said to my LTR “hehe, cute ” to which she responded by tonguing me down and rubbing my di** (after previously covering it with her bag.. ).

But ok the reason I'm telling you this is a bit different. Last night, after our awesome sex session, we were having a very intense conversation (about no specific topic, but it was still intense). At some point I ask her how did her trip to her home town go (she was there for 1 day a couple of days ago, for the holidays).

At this point she starts telling me about it, about how she meat with her girl-friend there (who she always said that she found very sexy, and which was actually the start of the MFF topic we had some time ago). She told me that they got a bit drunk and were just talking a bit with the people in the bar around them. And she also told me something that surprised me a lot: she said that at some point they decided they need to “sucker some guys into giving them money”. I didn't feel that this was a shit test at all, just that she was telling me about her weekend. She told me that they found too guys and flirted a bit with them and in the end got the guys to pay for some of their drinks and even give them $50 for a cab (they both - the girls - promised the guys to call them up the next day, which they never did). I really don't mind this at all, I find it absolutely super hot and sexy that a girl is capable to use her charm to get guys to do stuff for her. She also told me that she has no respect for those guys that agree to give out money like that and generally joked about them. She told me how she could never respect a guy who lets himself be manipulated by her, or any other woman. my only reaction to all of this was busting on her lightly for being a little playette and manipulator. It was fun

Like I said, I find this super hot and I neither intend to do anything to “stop this behavior”, “discourage it”, “punish it” nor “rich description the shit out of her” or anything like that. I'm totally cool with it and love to listen to those kinds of stories. It's also 'mutual' in a way. She knows that when I hang out with my friends I tend to sometimes drag them to strip clubs, sometimes meet women and exchange phone numbers even etc.

//SIDE NOTE// reading this, You might ask if we are really exclusive, and well I'm pretty sure she asked me for it multiple times about 8 months ago, like when we were in a coffee shop in Amsterdam and some drunk brittish player was hitting on here, she ejects quickly and comes up to me and says “please, tell me that you could never share me with another man..?” actually when I look back at it, she was always more 'concerned' with me not sharing her with other guys, than with her not sharing me with other women. Even when we were talking about threesomes, she subcommunicated that a MFF threesome is fine, but directly communicated that she wouldn't like a MMF threesome, because she doesn't feel “shareable” and she feels she only belongs to me. //END SIDE NOTE//

The thing is, I always “suspected” that she was the kind of flirt who would do stuff like that, but she often tried to play being a good girl with me. Granted, I was often able to take off this “good girl” mask by busting her etc., but it never got to the point where she would actually tell me about “what she did when she was out drunk at night”.

Keep in mind, this girl goes out drinking maybe once a month or so. I would like to hear your opinion about this. I would probably say this indicates a LSE on her part. Maybe something else as well? Maybe she felt so much comfort at that point that she decided to tell me that (this sounds the most rational thing to me).

Also, keep in mind that I was the one who “provoked” her to tell this story, with the questions that I was asking. It's not like she suddenly burst out “HEY WE FLIRTED WITH TWO GUYS AND GOT MONEY OUT OF THEM, HAH!! :):)”. Which is probaly the main reason I don't feel it was a shit test at all.

Let me repeat this tho: when she was telling me this, it really didn't feel like I was being shit tested or anything. It just felt like a girl telling her very good old friend a cool story about “when she went out and got a little crazy”. But maybe I just don't notice some tests anymore. hard to say

Well David, Thanks again for your wonderful and very quick advice in the matter. I strongly appreciate it! Will definitely start posting here more often than in the other forum(s)