Real Modern Man

Ok so here is the situation. I'm going to try to be as precise as possible, since i require some specific help and

advice.

I've been with this girl for just over 15 months now. We've been exclusive for around a year. She is only 20 years

old. She respects her mother and loves her very much. She has mixed feelings about her father (sometimes she will call

him an asshole who always busts on her, for never finishing what he started etc.. and sometimes she will say that he

is very cool.. I think overal, she loves him, but i've definitely seen girls speak more keenly about their father

figure). It's hard for me to say if she is a Good Girl or not.. probably so but also with a bit of Freak in her. I

don't have a lot of experience (been with around twenty girls in total, and this is my second LTR ever), so it's hard

to tell. She is DEFINITELY High Drive. Her self esteem is probably average – sometimes she can be very HSE, sometimes

exhibits some LSE.. overal I would say she is middle self esteem, leaning a bit towards “high”.

This is as much as I can say about her. Now, a bit about the relationship.

The frame at the beginning of the relationship was very hardly connected with sex. Everything was about making out and

sex at the beginning, and sex has always been the “prime” thing in the relationship. We do have shitloads of great

time together outside of sex, but almost at every single step there is always some sexual tension between us, this

rarely dissapears. From the very beginning she has been very compliant to me sexually. Light BDSM, anal, sex in public

etc, you name it. Even the idea of a MFF threesome came up around a month ago. Overal it's been great. In the first

couple months of the relationship I definitely screwed up seriously at some points, specifically by taking her Drama

too seriously. I started reading around at that time tho and comments from Franco, David and JWS really made some

tremendous change happen in me, and I can say with certainty that I have managed to regain a lot of power in the

relationship since then.

(side note: she emphasized many times that she likes to be dominated in bed heavily).

EVENTS FROM 15 DAYS AGO:

So, just a bit over two weeks ago, we went out to a new restaurant that we both wanted to check out. On the way there,

I felt that I was a little bit too aggressive with her somtimes. For example, while we wer riding the bus I would tell

her to rub my dick and call her a slut, even tho there were shitloads of people standing RIGHT NEXT TO US and looking

at us. At some point I stopped cause I felt I crossed some line there, but we didnt talk about it at all like it never

happened. Everything is cool.

FAST FORWARD 2 DAYS LATER:

She drops by my place, we fuck. At the end of the fuck session I simulate having her raped, along with shitloads of

descriptive language describing the whole rape event, how people saw us but didnt want to help, or that some guy was

watching us from around the corner and masturbating, etc. She was very much into it, I could see she liked it. As soon

as we were done tho, I could sense something was wrong – she was acting a bit cold (compared to how cuddly she gets

after a nice fuck session). We lay there in bed for a couple minutes, when suddenly she asks:

HER: “Did you enjoy this?”
ME: Of course baby, it was awesome *squish her tits*

I can already sense drama coming my way. She gets up from bed, gets partly dressed, sits down on the side of the bed

and starts smoking a cigarrette. I just lay in bed and ignore her. 5 minutes of silence go by, and suddenly it starts:

Within around 10 minutes time, she managed to give me drama about 4 or 5 different subjects. The first subject was

about me being sometimes TOO dominant and not respecting her. Some other drama was about her feeling the relationship

was “too open” and not exclusive. Some drama was about me asking her to do the dishes before and not doing them

myself. I ignored all of this, basically told her I was too tired now and that she should get off my back. She sat

there for another 5 minutes in silence, then suddenly got up and started dressing. I just asked her “Are you leaving?”

and she answered: “yeah” (it was 3AM btw). I just said “ok”. And stayed in bed watching her get dressed and leave.

Now, keep in mind, around a year ago before I was aware of the community, she did the same thing to me, and I made an

apology (after her giving me some drama) and asked her not to go. That was over a year ago, I obviously wasnt going to

do the same now. I just let her leave, and actually felt happy about it because I could finally sleep.

THE NEXT DAY:

Around 21:00 PM I receive an SMS from her: “Can we meet today? I would like to explain some things to you.” I

completely didnt like how she stormed out last night, so I smsed her back, quite honestly: “I'm busy tonight, doing

XYZ. Regarding yesterday: we have had some wonderful and amazing times together honey, however if you cannot accept me

for who I am, I think we have to part our ways so you can look for something else for yourself.”

10 minutes later she starts calling me on my cellphone. I don't answer the first 3 times (my cellphone was on silent),

but I answer on the 4th time. She shit tests me with “what was that sms supposed to mean?” I just said “it meant what

it meant honey”..

HER: “so you are not going to change?
ME: *not ansewring*
HER: *I can hear she is starting to cry* I don't want us to break up, I really don't want to… *starts crying lightly

here*

I comfort her a bit, and start doing some phone sex with her. She tells me how horney she is, and I tell her we can

meet up in 2 hours. We go to my place and have some great sex. We meet up again two days later and everything goes on

awesomely between us.

Except for one thing: I notice that, whenever I try to tongue her down, she will put on some resistance and try to

kiss without a tongue. I ignore this and don't supplicate at all. But I can sense something is different.

FOUR DAYS LATER:

I come back home around 21 PM, and find her in my apartament (I gave her a key to it btw about 5 months ago). She

seems kinda distant. I make myself dinner and sit down on the couch and start to eat. She sits down by me, calmly,

with an awkward look on her face. And she starts with

HER: “I don't think this is gonna work out between us..”

Drama storm inssues from here here. She tells me how she hates it that I always only do what I want etc etc. And that

she NEEDS to know that I can bend at least a small little bit for her, otherwise she doesnt want to be with me. I make

fun of her and generally not take her seriously. At one point she also mentions that she has found and been reading

all of my seduction related topics on seduction forums in the internet.. for the past 4 months! At some point I try to

escalate to sex at some point but she puts on resistance, so I just get up to work at my computer. The drama continues

and she is starting to piss me off, I tell her to leave the house. She says “NO! I WANNA STAY AND TALK!”

I work at the computer and don't listen to her. She says “do you hear me?” And I just dont answer. She repeats .. “Do

you hear me..?!?” I say “Are you still here? I told you to go take a walk.”

At this point she comes up to me and turns off my computer monitors while I am working.

This is the first time I have ever gotten angry at her.. and you could tell I was angry, by my look and tone of voice

etc. I said to her loudly: “DON'T YOU EVER TURN OFF MY MONITORS WHILE I'M FUCKING WORKING, GET OUT OF MY PLACE OR I

WILL THROW YOU OUT BY FORCE!!” And I turn on my monitors back.

What she does? Tears start coming out of her eyes.. but she says: “You disrespect me by not wanting to talk to me, I

disrespect you too!” And she turns off my monitors again!!

I look at here now like I'm going to eat her, and I can see that her entire body is shivering and she is trying

extremely hard not to cry and to look strong. At this point I get up to her and try to caveman here. For the first 3-4

seconds she kisses with me like crazy and super pationately, but then she disengages by pushing me away even tho I was

trying to hold her strongly. And she says “No! you are doing what they said on the forums? trying to change every

problem into sex? i dont want this!”

And here is the point where I screwed up badly. I tell her that I agree that sometimes I can be very aggressive in

public places (even tho I knew exactly that this isn't really going to help..) and I will try to change that a bit.

I mean, I agree that I can sometimes be too aggressive in public, but i dont like the idea that I admitted to that in

reaction to her drama. I should have done it some other way on my own terms, subcommunicated it etc. But there you go,

I screwed up.

She sits down at the couch, I work at the computer in silence. We dont talk at all. Around an hour later I get up and

say “ok I'm going to sleep” pretty calmly. I lay down in bed. 5 minutes ago she joins me in bed, lays down and presses

herself very hard to my chest and wraps herself around me. 1 minute later I feel that her tears are flowing from her

eyes and onto my arm. I grab her and we fuck her hard for 40 minutes, and we go to sleep.

AND IT BEGINS!!

I havent got any drama from her from that time, but I have noticed A HUGE increase in the intensity of shit tests and

lack of compliance on her part. Examples:

1. When i send her an SMS she will ignore the sexual parts in it (never done that before, we always kept huge sexual

tension in our messages and real life talks)

2. When we are having sex in bed she will say something like “no i dont want you to finger me, i want you to do it

some other way!”

3. She tries to force strange positions during sex.. like she is trying to control how the sex is happening

4. At one point she jokingly says (but I could sense she was being true somehow) “I'm the one who has the pussy, I

decide the rules of the sex”!! Like I said, she said this trying to sound jokingly, but I believe when girls say stuff

like that then they are being subconciously honest, even if they sound to be joking.

5. Doing a lot of strange push & pulls on me that are strange for her and sometimes a bit disrespectful (just

slightly).

6. Being really non-compliant.. like after sex 4 days ago I asked her to bring us some water, she just smiled and said

“no”.

7. “Witholding” the tongue downs in public places and trying to turn a tongue down into a standard kiss.

I feel this could be either because I “caved” under her drama when I said I will try to reduce the aggressivness of

what I do to her in public when there are people around (I wasnt apologetic in it tho). Or maybe because she read on

the forums in my topics how I talk about leadership, being dominant etc and she now wants to PROVE that she won't

allow me to dominate or maybe it's just a test to see if I am for real.

WHAT HAPPENED TODAY:

I SMS her to schedule a meeting for today, she says she doesnt have time (I know she does have) and suggests we meet

tomorrow and tells me when she is off work.

I suggest a time for meeting tomorrow, she disagrees and suggests a different time and a different place.

I agree to the different time and place (because they did seem better than what I suggested, even tho it does sound

like she is trying to pull a “power game”), but at the same time gave her a compliance test:

I reminded her to buy some winter socks for me and her because on the 30th of December we are supposed to go snowboarding into the mountains. I've been organizing this trip, bought the tickets, done the hotel reservations etc. and i wanted her to participate a bit in this as well, so I asked her to shop for some winter socks for us and some other stuff that can be bought in a sports shop (she has one of the best sports shops in my country right next to the place where she works, like 30 seconds walk away).

When I asked her for the socks and stuff she says “I will try, but maybe you should buy them yourself cause you have more free time hm?:) and if not then we can just buy them when we are there in the mountains”

Now, at this point I feel like I'm getting HEAVY non-compliance, heavy shit tests, a bit of disrespect sometimes. And I feel that I cannot fix that by deploying some small methods, I have to do something big / strong here to regain her compliance. Am I right here? How would you proceed in this situation? I am meeting her tomorrow at 20:00 PM so I really need some advice quickly!

One last thing: This girl is (or was) yours, man.  You probably “overgamed” her, and more overgaming isn't going to work like you think.  

Just be chill.

Q: How did I know?

A: From your description of her she seems, as you say, HD, HSE, and adventurous.  Not TOO concerned with what other people think of her, but she still wants to feel good about herself.

Now, from reading your post, it seemed to me like you were being a dickhead.

Ergo: stop being a dickhead.

——

When she gets money from other guys, make it a HARD RULE that she splits the take with you.  She gets $50?  She brings you $25, or buys you stuff later, or whatever.  This is *critical*.   This puts you in the position of respect with her.  So, you passed the first half of this “test,” having her bring you your share is the other half.    Don't be a dickhead about it, make it a fun game.  

—–

Women are like genetically hard-wired to go for exclusivity even when they even want it.  So don't worry too much about what says, calibrate to her behavior on this point.

About her only wanting to be with you, that's good, and it will last as long as it lasts, and not a second longer.  Again, not something to worry overmuch about.  Enjoy her for the unique person that she!   Personally, I think you can go to the next level and build an extraordinary and lifelong friendship with her.   You may not be “in a relationship” at some point in the future, but you should be able to build an incredible friendship that will survive if you both decide to move on.

—–

You will stop noticing tests for two reasons:

1. You start passing them automatically just by being yourself.

2. They more or less stop because of who you are as a man.

From here on out, I you should be able use “tests” as an invitation for play.

Hi David, and thanks again for yourpost.

When you say Adventurous, do you mean what is often in the community referred to as “Freak”? I have noticed about her that whenever something that she is doing / a person that she interacts with starts negatively affecting her or her surrounding, she will IMMIDIATELY stop doing that thing / cut contact with that person. I always thought “freaks” were by definition self-destructive? Unless you meant something else when you said “Adventurous”, then nevermind

Have a great new year!

Hi David, and thanks again for yourpost.

When you say Adventurous, do you mean what is often in the community referred to as “Freak”? I have noticed about her that whenever something that she is doing / a person that she interacts with starts negatively affecting her or her surrounding, she will IMMIDIATELY stop doing that thing / cut contact with that person. I always thought “freaks” were by definition self-destructive? Unless you meant something else when you said “Adventurous”, then nevermind

Have a great new year!

In our view, an “Adventuress” and a “Freak” share a common desire or need for attention.

Freaks obtain this attention in self-destructive ways: drugs and sex.

Other women choose other forms of attention-getting: writing, acting, etc.

In her case, her cutting off overly negative people is good to keep herself positive, but not so good if she dismisses criticism that could help her.  But that's her call.   

These labels like “freak” or “ho” or good girl” are just starting points for being able to understand a woman.  No woman will fit into one of the categories exactly, and these categories only apply when a woman acting a feminine manner.   If she is at work as an engineer, that's different from when she is out of a date.  (Or should be!)

Look for and encourage her best behavior.   Make sure she understands that you respect her and  like her as a person, even after you give her a good dose of what she craves in bed.  Drawing this boundary between what's “in the bedroom” and what isn't will help your relationship a lot.

Also make sure that sex isn't the basis for continuing and growing the relationship (unless that is truly all you care about).   The sex part is figured out, the other parts are as important in the long term: How does she fit into your life?  Does she have a role in your future?  If so, what is her role?  These are the questions you need to ask yourself, then leading the relationships will be easier.

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We're having some issues with the forum software, bear with us while we figure it out!

Oh and on another subject; it seems that pretty soon the relationship will head towards a MFF 3some. I have heared of several situations (on other seduction forums) where, when the mention of a MFF threesome came up within a relationship, the woman would tell the man that she wouldnt want him (the man) to kiss the other girl, or that she wouldnt want the other girl to give him a BJ etc.. i mean setting up some 'boundaries' for what the guy can do in the threesome, while at the same time having a double standard about it. I havent had this happen (yet), but just as a precaution I would like to know how to behave in a situation like that? Should I just tell her straightforward that it can't work like that?

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady “Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to”. Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as “a matter of fact”. What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

flamingo71 said:

“Other women choose other forms of attention-getting: writing, acting, etc.”

This is interesting, especially that her college major is journalism. She always talks about she wants to 'express herself' by writing some articles, or doing documentaries of sorts etc. but somehow she never gets to it. Do you think there is a way for me to encourage her in that direction without becoming her “female girlfriend” or therapist?

Am I like psychic or what?  ;)

Sure, it's easy to encourage.  Do this:

• Appreciate without criticizing.
• Give brutally honest answers when necessary to express YOUR opinion, WITHOUT judging her in anyway.  Example: say she writes something that you don't really get.  Just say so, and say why if you can, but don't let your opinion be a reflection of your regard for her.  That is, she might be a really cool chick but a really bad writer.  You can like her for being cool without judging her for being a bad writer.

flamingo71 said:

Oh and on another subject; it seems that pretty soon the relationship will head towards a MFF 3some. I have heared of several situations (on other seduction forums) where, when the mention of a MFF threesome came up within a relationship, the woman would tell the man that she wouldnt want him (the man) to kiss the other girl, or that she wouldnt want the other girl to give him a BJ etc.. i mean setting up some 'boundaries' for what the guy can do in the threesome, while at the same time having a double standard about it. I havent had this happen (yet), but just as a precaution I would like to know how to behave in a situation like that? Should I just tell her straightforward that it can't work like that?

I have noticed in general that women sometimes tend to have double standards about this. Like, they will think it's “ok” for a woman (in an exclusive relationship) to kiss another woman, while if the guy does it with another woman then he is considered “cheating”. What is your take on this in general? How would you handle a situation where your exclusive lady told you she kissed (or even ALMOST kissed) another girl? I have read on another forum that a very respected relationship expert in this situation would very directly tell his lady “Honey, I don't mind you kissing other girls, just as long as you understand that if you do that then I will do it to”. Said of course not as a threat or an ultimatum or anything, just as “a matter of fact”. What do you think? I really feel that girls don't see the double standard in this, so I'm wondering how to handle these situations if they present themselves.

Thanks!

I don't have any experience with 3somes, so I won't give you specific advice.

What I can tell you is that women will generally follow you wherever you are men enough to take them, and that her “boundaries” are as likely related to her trust in your emotional capacity to handle social and sexual pressure in new and dangerous situations.

This  sort of general advice applies to just about everything.  Use it as a backstop for evaluating specific advice you get from anyone else on managing 3some mechanics.